Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby Ranking Glasses » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:38 am

Many many years ago my aunt bought A Little Way Different by Errol Dunkley by mistake thinking it was one of his love songs. She gave it to me and I played it until it wore out and ended up buying the repress. What a tune! Wicked instrumental & dub on the flip side too.
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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby soul rebel » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:06 am

I used the word "mash-up" in quotationmarks to indicate that I didn't use the expression in the usual way. Of course I know what a mash-up is.
And it perfectly correct to describe what we are talking about here as a "mash-up" of two riddims into one, meaning parts of one, and parts of another, then put together. Are you purposely trying to misunderstand me?

What I admit i DIDN'T do is listen to Steve's video long enough to hear the melody from Rockfort Rock.

So we have one example.

But the other thing I reacted to is that this is supposedly "not uncommon".

So please give me more examples! Jamaican ones, not English, please.
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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby finbar » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:50 pm

Here's a pretty easy-to-recognize example for you. Can you identify the song the synth-line is "borrowed" from on "Down The Line", a Sugar Minott tune?
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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby BeePIe2 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:03 pm

If I've got the gist of this then Take Five is an example,

The "Take Five" riddim itself from "The Russians Are Coming" Val Bennett

but Brubeck's tune crops up on other riddims,

"Enter Into His Gates With Praise", Tommy McCook flute, eg. "Jah Love Dub" Prince Jammy (Bunny Lee)

unknown riddim, eg. "Take Five" Rico Rodriguez (Island)

unknown riddim, eg. "Counter Punch" Bobby Kalphat (Phil Pratt)

Other odds and ends I've found in my collection (I don't have a way of gathering these at the moment so it's a bit random),

Zion Train - Movement Of The People ("Wet Dream" horns)
Leroy Smart - Don't Let Me Down or Jah Almighty ("Danger Zone" horns)
Winston Wright feat. Vin Gordon - Adis-A-Baba ("Addis Ababa" horns)
King Tubby & The Aggrovators - Kojak ("Take The A Train" horns).
King Tubby's - King Tubby's Special ("Drum Song" horns).
Delroy Wilson - Here Comes The Heartache ("Here Comes The Heartache" horns).

"I Can't Hide" horns for Yabby, eg "Jah Want Us" King Tubby's & Yabby You.
"I Can't Hide" horns for Tappa, eg "First Street Rock" Tappa Zukie.

The Cash "Ring Of Fire" horns crop up all over the place, beginning with (?) "Music Is My Occupation" Don Drummond & The Skatalites.

King Tubby "Perfidia" ("Perfidia" horns)
Cornel Campbell "My Country" ("Rockabye Woman" horns).
Prince Jammy & The DEB Players "Structure" ("Travelling Man" horns)
Freddie McKay "Gonna Be Sorry" ("I Can't Stop Now" horns)
Scientist & The Roots Radics "My Heart Is Dub" (My Heart Is Gone" organ)
Tappa Zukie "Riding West" ("Riding West" sax)
King Tubby's feat. Tommy McCook "When I Fall In Dub" ("When I Fall In Love" sax)
Sly Dunbar "Slippin' Into Darkness" ("Get Up Stand Up" sax)

None of which are on the bass line I'd expect (not that I've rechecked, a quick type & post as I have new CD's to play with, 3x Cherry Red Dr Bird releases, an Ariwa sampler and Mad Prof & Jah 9).
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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby minidub » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:25 pm

i completely agree with finbar in that i hear this sort of thing fairly rhythm combined with a great horns riff of another tune, or the piano keys melody of another, whatever.
i cannot however, come up with any examples right off the top; kudos to those who can! but there are certainly plenty of them out there.

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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby soul rebel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:41 am

finbar: That's the complete version of african beat. Not just the horns.


First one: that melody is more or less a standard.

The Zion Train tune simply uses the Wet Dream riddim. All the parts.

King Tubby's Special - I don't know which tune you mean, but the one I have, the one with U-Roy, has nothing of Drum Song at all in it.

Tappa Zukie - First Street Rock: Again - it's ON the Russians Are Comming-riddim.

Can't go through them all..

But one thing I want to point out is: there are those melodies that are part of certain riddims, but where the melody is "bigger" that the riddim.
I'm talking about certain stuff that was a cover to begin wity, OR if the melody is like a standard, it is ingrained in most musicians musical subconsious, or some such.

And one more thing: most of the tunes you post seem to just be on the same riddim, nothing more.
If the horns AND the bassline are the same in this way, that means it does not fall in the category you are trying to prove they belong to.
Last edited by soul rebel on Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby soul rebel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:45 am


They DO exist, but my feeling is that it's quite uncommon.

That's all I'm saying.

And I'm still not at all convinced about "Lord Watch Over Our Shoulders".
Still think it might as well be laziness, forgetfulness, or other human error.
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Re: Two Year Old Riddim (Jammys)

Postby finbar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:27 pm

soul rebel wrote:finbar: That's the complete version of african beat. Not just the horns.

Mathias, It's not The "African Beat" riddim, which has a i-IV-V chord progression, it's a I-IV chord structure with a variation of the African Beat horns line used within the sequenced bass-line. That's not a "complete version" by any means. Remember how just one page ago you agreed that the bass line defines what a riddim is? The enclosed musical quote of "African Beat" within the song doesn't make it the "African Beat" riddim, just as how adding "Lecturer" horns to a version of the "Two Year Old" riddim doesn't make it a version of "The Lecturer". Which was precisely my original point.

I think the issue here is that you are counting "similar" or "reminiscent of" as "the same", and if you can't hear and understand these subtle distinctions, it stands to reason that you find influences and musical quotations "uncommon". Anything that someone either can't, or seldom perceive would seem "uncommon" or even possibly "non-existent" to them. But for those that can tell the difference and hear these subtleties, listening to you say they don't, or infrequently exist is as frustrating as listening to someone who is colour-blind repeatedly insist that a spectrum of colours don't actually really exist because they themselves don't have the ability to see them.

All of this really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, I just felt that your comments about Jammy making a "mistake", "laziness" or "forgetfulness" as the reason for your misidentification of a riddim pretty ridiculous. It's so much easier to to admit that you are wrong than it is to convince everyone else around you, including the musicians who actually created the music, that they are.
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